Comments on: Enlightenment Day & Responsibility http://blog.oshana.org/enlightenment-day-responsibility/ A Travel Guide To Awakening & Enlightenment Thu, 24 Jul 2008 10:16:06 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6 By: Oshana http://blog.oshana.org/enlightenment-day-responsibility/#comment-1605 Oshana Fri, 18 Jul 2008 20:27:34 +0000 http://oshana.org/blog/?p=8#comment-1605 Hi Jewel, Thanks for your concerns. I asked myself the question and related issues which you raised. I got the same basic answer again. Simplistically put: I teach because I feel compelled to. The same reasons have not changed and were partly discussed in the following radio interview: http://klassikaraadio.err.ee/helid?main_id=752643 I haven't verified that there is a verified Enlightened Saint who could verify my Enlightenment. For me, my Enlightenment has verified itself to me. I needed to get Enlightened and I did. The idea of verifying it seemed superfluous. I did try (on a whim) but the teacher that I was suggested to see was not very accessible. Oh no, maybe I should have tried harder! Concerning the issue that I might be creating karma for myself. You might be right. But I could accept that. I am not trying to save myself. Hi Jewel,

Thanks for your concerns.

I asked myself the question and related issues which you raised. I got the same basic answer again. Simplistically put: I teach because I feel compelled to. The same reasons have not changed and were partly discussed in the following radio interview:
http://klassikaraadio.err.ee/helid?main_id=752643

I haven’t verified that there is a verified Enlightened Saint who could verify my Enlightenment. For me, my Enlightenment has verified itself to me. I needed to get Enlightened and I did. The idea of verifying it seemed superfluous. I did try (on a whim) but the teacher that I was suggested to see was not very accessible. Oh no, maybe I should have tried harder!

Concerning the issue that I might be creating karma for myself. You might be right. But I could accept that. I am not trying to save myself.

]]> By: J. Heart http://blog.oshana.org/enlightenment-day-responsibility/#comment-1603 J. Heart Fri, 18 Jul 2008 16:06:56 +0000 http://oshana.org/blog/?p=8#comment-1603 Dear Dave O, With all respect, ask yourself if you are teaching because GOD asked you to, or does your ego feel "obligated" to teach? Have you had your final experience verified by an Enlightened Saint? If your experience is not full and not integrated, the teachings will be less pure than they could be. Plus, you are creating karma for yourself by teaching before Enlightenment is full, before the experience is fully integrated, if that is the case. Your choice. May GOD Bless you. Jewel Dear Dave O, With all respect, ask yourself if you are teaching because GOD asked you to, or does your ego feel “obligated” to teach? Have you had your final experience verified by an Enlightened Saint? If your experience is not full and not integrated, the teachings will be less pure than they could be. Plus, you are creating karma for yourself by teaching before Enlightenment is full, before the experience is fully integrated, if that is the case. Your choice. May GOD Bless you. Jewel

]]> By: Oshana http://blog.oshana.org/enlightenment-day-responsibility/#comment-1563 Oshana Sun, 13 Jul 2008 18:37:58 +0000 http://oshana.org/blog/?p=8#comment-1563 Hi Jewel, Synchronistically as I read your comments I was listening to an interview I gave for Estonia's klassikaraadio some time ago and broadcast today. (I will post a link as soon as they update their information) In the interview I am explaining why I started to teach. Partly it was because I had been quite vocally in voicing my doubts about the existence of Enlightenment. I also was frustrated with the confusing teachings on offer at that time especially as it was not possible to carefully question those who promoted these teachings. It was suggested to me by some individuals that I delay teaching but I felt that this was due to their own personal issues not mine. How could I wait 12 or 20 years, as suggested, when I could be of great use and value to those who sought as intensely as I had? Blessings, Dave O Hi Jewel,

Synchronistically as I read your comments I was listening to an interview I gave for Estonia’s klassikaraadio some time ago and broadcast today. (I will post a link as soon as they update their information)

In the interview I am explaining why I started to teach. Partly it was because I had been quite vocally in voicing my doubts about the existence of Enlightenment. I also was frustrated with the confusing teachings on offer at that time especially as it was not possible to carefully question those who promoted these teachings.

It was suggested to me by some individuals that I delay teaching but I felt that this was due to their own personal issues not mine. How could I wait 12 or 20 years, as suggested, when I could be of great use and value to those who sought as intensely as I had?

Blessings,

Dave O

]]> By: J. Heart http://blog.oshana.org/enlightenment-day-responsibility/#comment-1559 J. Heart Sun, 13 Jul 2008 06:57:02 +0000 http://oshana.org/blog/?p=8#comment-1559 Dear Dave, I applaude your Enlightenment experience, I know that it is not as easy as some would make it sound to achieve. I would like to add a comment to something that you said on your website; "I went from being a private individual to immediately becoming a public enlightenment teacher. I was in a hurry to enlighten others." From what I have read and from what I have learned from my own Guru, Enlightenment takes integration time, usually years, before one is blessed by their Guru to teach. Even the great Ramana Maharshi took years to integrate his experience, way before he began teaching. Most people who Enlighten do not teach. Jewel Dear Dave,
I applaude your Enlightenment experience, I know that it is not as easy as some would make it sound to achieve. I would like to add a comment to something that you said on your website; “I went from being a private individual to immediately becoming a public enlightenment teacher. I was in a hurry to enlighten others.” From what I have read and from what I have learned from my own Guru, Enlightenment takes integration time, usually years, before one is blessed by their Guru to teach. Even the great Ramana Maharshi took years to integrate his experience, way before he began teaching. Most people who Enlighten do not teach. Jewel

]]> By: Nick http://blog.oshana.org/enlightenment-day-responsibility/#comment-345 Nick Thu, 08 Nov 2007 01:03:02 +0000 http://oshana.org/blog/?p=8#comment-345 Thank You Paul, Hi Dave, I feel Pauls message actuallly speaks for many of us.... especially myself !!! I to give permission for the cricket bat of wisdom.... Nick Thank You Paul,

Hi Dave,

I feel Pauls message actuallly speaks for many of us….
especially myself !!!
I to give permission for the cricket bat of wisdom….

Nick

]]> By: Paul http://blog.oshana.org/enlightenment-day-responsibility/#comment-176 Paul Sun, 26 Aug 2007 06:23:45 +0000 http://oshana.org/blog/?p=8#comment-176 Hi Dave, Once again I've found myself looking at your website. I'm searching for encouragement. I think I've been steadily moving down a steep canyon, where my choices have become more and more limited. That is, I've been living the "American Dream," where I have a car, a computer, a good job, lots of junk food, and tons of "good times" with the boys and girls. And once again, these things only serve to make me conscious of that empty part of me that wants fulfillment. And yet, I cannot quite bring myself to become a "spiritual person," with a perfect vegan diet, hours of silent meditation, and all the trappings of that sort of life. I feel like that would be just an imitation life, where I pretend to be spiritual in an attempt to starve my "bad side" to death, so that the "good side" will come out the victor. Somehow, I don't think that battle would go well... I guess I want my cake and to eat it too, or am I trying to be Osho's "Zorba the Buddha?" Certainly I'm not a "good" enlightenment student, if you can even label me that, but my life in the mundane is giving me a good lesson in constant misery. Quite frankly, I have difficulty getting good sleep, I am cranky a lot, and I feel powerless to turn my situation around. I live a dual life, where I look and act fairly normal, eating and drinking, working and playing, doing what everybody around me is doing. But inside I despise this life. I desire, more and more, to find once and for all the peace and well-being that so obviously flows from enlightened folks. I suppose it's self-indulgent to post this information out to the world, but maybe someone else out there is feeling like me: bored, tired, frustrated - and constantly seeking! Maybe everyone is feeling this... Dave, am I wasting my time? Am I kidding myself? Can you tell from my post any obvious pitfalls that I'm not watching out for? I'm not asking you to live my life for me, by any means, but perhaps you've got a cricket bat of wisdom in your hand to knock some sense into me. I know that all you want is for me to become enlightened, but I have to be honest - I really don't know what that means! Nonetheless, hit me over the head and perhaps I'll see some stars. Okay, thanks! Paul Hi Dave,
Once again I’ve found myself looking at your website. I’m searching for encouragement. I think I’ve been steadily moving down a steep canyon, where my choices have become more and more limited. That is, I’ve been living the “American Dream,” where I have a car, a computer, a good job, lots of junk food, and tons of “good times” with the boys and girls. And once again, these things only serve to make me conscious of that empty part of me that wants fulfillment. And yet, I cannot quite bring myself to become a “spiritual person,” with a perfect vegan diet, hours of silent meditation, and all the trappings of that sort of life. I feel like that would be just an imitation life, where I pretend to be spiritual in an attempt to starve my “bad side” to death, so that the “good side” will come out the victor. Somehow, I don’t think that battle would go well… I guess I want my cake and to eat it too, or am I trying to be Osho’s “Zorba the Buddha?” Certainly I’m not a “good” enlightenment student, if you can even label me that, but my life in the mundane is giving me a good lesson in constant misery. Quite frankly, I have difficulty getting good sleep, I am cranky a lot, and I feel powerless to turn my situation around. I live a dual life, where I look and act fairly normal, eating and drinking, working and playing, doing what everybody around me is doing. But inside I despise this life. I desire, more and more, to find once and for all the peace and well-being that so obviously flows from enlightened folks. I suppose it’s self-indulgent to post this information out to the world, but maybe someone else out there is feeling like me: bored, tired, frustrated - and constantly seeking! Maybe everyone is feeling this… Dave, am I wasting my time? Am I kidding myself? Can you tell from my post any obvious pitfalls that I’m not watching out for? I’m not asking you to live my life for me, by any means, but perhaps you’ve got a cricket bat of wisdom in your hand to knock some sense into me. I know that all you want is for me to become enlightened, but I have to be honest - I really don’t know what that means! Nonetheless, hit me over the head and perhaps I’ll see some stars. Okay, thanks!

Paul

]]> By: Oshana http://blog.oshana.org/enlightenment-day-responsibility/#comment-140 Oshana Sat, 18 Aug 2007 20:33:03 +0000 http://oshana.org/blog/?p=8#comment-140 Hi Nadia, Thank you for your testimony and questions. The issues you face are fairly typical. Although without having seen your energetic structure I cannot be certain of your current state. In the Oshana Enlightenment Teaching the necessity of adequate preparation is emphasized. Whenever any "inner firewall" is broken there is vulnerability which could lead either to growth or damage. A seeker must be able to hold things together after awakening to a higher plane of consciousness. Such preparation should start before such an awakening. I am reluctant to introduce hesitation into the mind of anyone who is going for enlightenment as such an attitude is rare. However, I have witnessed seekers become unstable when encountering their unconscious, erroneous beliefs and heavy external forces. Hence, I advise caution and proper supervision. It is important to remain functional especially if others depend on you either now or hopefully later (if one becomes enlightened). So there needs to be a balance of protectiveness and vulnerability guided by wisdom and intuition. I suspect that as you sort out your own past issues that you will need some help and guidance to stay safe. If you are honest about what you don't know then you won't trapped into teaching things which you don't know. Good luck and drop by sometime with an update. Blessings, Dave O Hi Nadia,

Thank you for your testimony and questions.

The issues you face are fairly typical. Although without having seen your energetic structure I cannot be certain of your current state.

In the Oshana Enlightenment Teaching the necessity of adequate preparation is emphasized. Whenever any “inner firewall” is broken there is vulnerability which could lead either to growth or damage. A seeker must be able to hold things together after awakening to a higher plane of consciousness. Such preparation should start before such an awakening.

I am reluctant to introduce hesitation into the mind of anyone who is going for enlightenment as such an attitude is rare. However, I have witnessed seekers become unstable when encountering their unconscious, erroneous beliefs and heavy external forces. Hence, I advise caution and proper supervision.

It is important to remain functional especially if others depend on you either now or hopefully later (if one becomes enlightened).

So there needs to be a balance of protectiveness and vulnerability guided by wisdom and intuition. I suspect that as you sort out your own past issues that you will need some help and guidance to stay safe.

If you are honest about what you don’t know then you won’t trapped into teaching things which you don’t know.

Good luck and drop by sometime with an update.

Blessings,

Dave O

]]> By: Panu http://blog.oshana.org/enlightenment-day-responsibility/#comment-127 Panu Thu, 16 Aug 2007 12:36:58 +0000 http://oshana.org/blog/?p=8#comment-127 <p>Funny, some of the feelings that Nadia is describing are exactly the same, that I have had after strong encounters with the enlightenment-teaching.</p> <p>Especially the feeling of sudden responsibility - and this has become more conscious after the summer retreat. It's very new feeling in some way, but a very inviting and exciting also. </p> <p>But I also share the feeling, that it feels hard to be pure and true all the time, even if other people see it and recognise it in you.</p> <p>Somehow it doesn't feel nice suddenly, to be expected to be the one who gives, after so many years of wanting and receiving.</p> <p>But, when it IS real, it's the best, and the most satisfying feeling you can get... </p> <p>I feel that I'm able to touch the purity from time to time, and then it feels slipping away, but it comes back. I'm certain of it now.</p> <p>Somehow, the Transmission, or the spirit, or God, has a will that is more intelligent and wide, than my human brain can grasp. But being open to it, feels like getting a life full of surprises, and 'letting go of the steering-wheel' -kind of sensation.</p> <p>I have done these kind of 'checks': that is my mind working as a 'firewall against enlightenment' or for it, regularly for some time, and I feel that I don't have to go senseless or totally 'out of my mind' to be really connected to the universe inside and outside of me. </p> <p>Rather I believe it's possible to find a good way to co-exist, by offering my body and my mind for use to the force that is really 'running things' in this universe.</p> <p>If that is what enlightenment is.</p> Funny, some of the feelings that Nadia is describing are exactly the same, that I have had after strong encounters with the enlightenment-teaching.

Especially the feeling of sudden responsibility - and this has become more conscious after the summer retreat. It’s very new feeling in some way, but a very inviting and exciting also.

But I also share the feeling, that it feels hard to be pure and true all the time, even if other people see it and recognise it in you.

Somehow it doesn’t feel nice suddenly, to be expected to be the one who gives, after so many years of wanting and receiving.

But, when it IS real, it’s the best, and the most satisfying feeling you can get…

I feel that I’m able to touch the purity from time to time, and then it feels slipping away, but it comes back. I’m certain of it now.

Somehow, the Transmission, or the spirit, or God, has a will that is more intelligent and wide, than my human brain can grasp. But being open to it, feels like getting a life full of surprises, and ‘letting go of the steering-wheel’ -kind of sensation.

I have done these kind of ‘checks’: that is my mind working as a ‘firewall against enlightenment’ or for it, regularly for some time, and I feel that I don’t have to go senseless or totally ‘out of my mind’ to be really connected to the universe inside and outside of me.

Rather I believe it’s possible to find a good way to co-exist, by offering my body and my mind for use to the force that is really ‘running things’ in this universe.

If that is what enlightenment is.

]]> By: Nadia http://blog.oshana.org/enlightenment-day-responsibility/#comment-98 Nadia Sat, 11 Aug 2007 15:33:59 +0000 http://oshana.org/blog/?p=8#comment-98 <p>Recently, I attended a month long retreat in India where they broke through 'the firewall of the mind' as you say, and transmitted 'enlightened information' and energy, bringing all the people there into higher states of cosnsciousness. </p> <p>I've been on the spiritual path and searching for enlightenment for many years and this finally felt like the real thing, the day, the arrival. I became like a new born baby, and felt the whole universe inside me. I lost much interest in outside things and only wanted to sit in samadi or silent meditation most of the time. I was and continue to be aware of ever present love, and intelligence, in all things. I started to see that remaining true to this was arriving-deeper reconising spirit, and no mind talk had anything to do with it. That awareness of an ever present love, spaciousness and interconnectedness is still there, making me feel a tremendous love of God, and at-home-ness. </p> <p>However, it also means all my previous attempts at self-defence have dissolved, leaving me tremendously vulnerable, and facing alot of old pain and need arising from childhood. Where do I go from here? </p> <p>Should I allow all this stuff to arise, making me potentially very vulnerable, and not using my mind's discrimation or judgement with people and situations, or maintain a layer of protection and wariness with people in the world? </p> <p>It feels like to allow all this stuff is to dissolve entirely, and lose any connection I have with individuals, culture, etc. </p> <p>Also I see how people start to look to me for advice and spiritual support and I am worried to take on a role that perhaps I have not properly earned. I feel like a fraud.</p> Recently, I attended a month long retreat in India where they broke through ‘the firewall of the mind’ as you say, and transmitted ‘enlightened information’ and energy, bringing all the people there into higher states of cosnsciousness.

I’ve been on the spiritual path and searching for enlightenment for many years and this finally felt like the real thing, the day, the arrival. I became like a new born baby, and felt the whole universe inside me. I lost much interest in outside things and only wanted to sit in samadi or silent meditation most of the time. I was and continue to be aware of ever present love, and intelligence, in all things. I started to see that remaining true to this was arriving-deeper reconising spirit, and no mind talk had anything to do with it. That awareness of an ever present love, spaciousness and interconnectedness is still there, making me feel a tremendous love of God, and at-home-ness.

However, it also means all my previous attempts at self-defence have dissolved, leaving me tremendously vulnerable, and facing alot of old pain and need arising from childhood. Where do I go from here?

Should I allow all this stuff to arise, making me potentially very vulnerable, and not using my mind’s discrimation or judgement with people and situations, or maintain a layer of protection and wariness with people in the world?

It feels like to allow all this stuff is to dissolve entirely, and lose any connection I have with individuals, culture, etc.

Also I see how people start to look to me for advice and spiritual support and I am worried to take on a role that perhaps I have not properly earned. I feel like a fraud.

]]> By: Oshana http://blog.oshana.org/enlightenment-day-responsibility/#comment-6 Oshana Fri, 06 Jul 2007 11:42:53 +0000 http://oshana.org/blog/?p=8#comment-6 Hi Paul, A few years before I got enlightened. I also doubted. I doubted that enlightenment existed - after spending a whole liftetime seeking it. I even voiced this opinion at public spiritual meetings to my peers. Consequently, I was more surprised than anyone when enlightenment finally struck. Despite my doubts I was never able to give up the search for enlightenment until it happened to me. Blessings, Dave O. Hi Paul,

A few years before I got enlightened. I also doubted.

I doubted that enlightenment existed - after spending a whole liftetime seeking it.

I even voiced this opinion at public spiritual meetings to my peers.

Consequently, I was more surprised than anyone when enlightenment finally struck.

Despite my doubts I was never able to give up the search for enlightenment until it happened to me.

Blessings,

Dave O.

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